Team Fighting???!!!!!!!!

[disgruntled]

ok guys i think you will need to calm me down a bit.......

i just learnt about a new development in muay thai and i am not impressed! apparently two fighters from my gym did this Chuck Norris team fighting thing.... they were alternates on the Denver or Dallas (a US city that starts with "D"..... it was the end of class i was tired.. give me a break!!) team (and they did get to fight so they'll be on TV sometime)...... i don't understand this thing entirely but i will give an explaination a try.... here is what the class was told by one of the fighters:

they fight on a platform.... they are are not allow to touch gloves/bow or any other form of sportsmanship (it is a RULE that they have to act agressive and look like they have to be restrained while going on to the ring)..... the fights have to be non-stop action, the are pentalized if they stop and "feel their opponent out"..... there are 12 three min rounds. you start with a starting line up of six guys that go out and do the first six matches. if the guys are injured or not action packed enough the alternate is put in for the second match. so 12 guys per team...... the fighter from our gym that was telling us about it also said that he found that he did the whole big show thing, bad mouth people play to the fans and all that.... he said that he is ashamed with how he acted, but it was easy because he was encouraged to do so and he did not know how else to act........... in the end he implied that overall it is a good thing to get exposure for muay thai and he encouaged members to think about getting involved............

i want to cry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i thought MMA was bad!!! what will this do for Muay Thai???? it will lose the credtibility and sportsmanship of the sport! i would much much rather the sport get no exposure and remian a martial art then watch it degrade into some sort of freak show cock fight!!

hopefully i will be able to find a link with more information.... as you can tell i am horrible biased!

thoughts so far??

links

http://ballardboxing.tripod.com/id91.html

http://www.worldcombatleague.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Combat_League

[DOCBROWN1705]

Im sorry to say it, but what your friend described is no different than any other "Pro" fighting event (Ie: UFC/Wrestling/etc..) It's a show.. no different than watching you daily soap opera lol. It was designed to be pure entertainment...... And its fighters come from all backgrounds (MT to JKD)......

Personally I treat it just like UFC..... I don't bother to watch it I truly hope this is not the future of Martial Arts!

http://www.worldcombatleague.com/pdf...ion_110405.pdf

[disgruntled]

the part that got to me is that he even admitted that it made him ashamed of himself and then he still endorsed the sport and encouraged people to join..... it is hard not to lose respect for someone after that.... and then it makes me question whether i should stay at that gym.

the school is run like a McDojo.... but the Ajarn and the other instructors are really good and know their stuff, so i am learning a lot..... so long as you don't fall into the trap of testing and all that you aren't really affected by the McDojo aspect..... or so i thought...... think of what this Chuck Norris fight just did to the reputation of the fighters at my gym..... it is hard to think of them as serious MAist after that..... and what if the gym becomes more strongly associated with that image (which i could totally see happening)..... is this a school i want to be associated with?

[DOCBROWN1705]

I completely understand what you are saying.....
If you want my opinion, I would suggest discussing the issue with the upper members of your school, and try to get a feel for the direction they want to go. If after that you feel you can no longer train there, than so be it.....

I also think that promoting the discussion, will help everyone in your school, and possibly bring light to the topic.

Your concerns are valid.... follow your gut, and keep the faith.....

[disgruntled]

good advice, unfortunately i cannot really follow it.... it is sadly not that kind of school. the females there (mostly the fighters) have there cliques and sadly don't really open up to outsiders and talk with them... and a large majority of the guys are just there because they want hit people..... it never really bugged me before because i am there to train, so i don't care if i don't make friends... and the guys (and girls) that i do hang out with are more there for fun......... i do not know if there are any more serious MAist at that school that would be as outraged as i am.......... plus there is a bit of that millitary brain washing going on there...... like if you say "i don't support the war" it is manipulated into "i do not support the troops" which are two totally different things.

like i said, the place is a bit of a McDojo.... i knew that going in...... i am staying because even though the main guy, the Ajarn, is a egotistical McDojo running prick, he is a great fighter and teacher. and you can tell he loves muay thai.... oddly enough, when i see him teaching class i find him inspirational. he makes me love muay thai too, and i see all the neat subleties of the art. and i am not ready to leave the school yet because i do not feel i have learnt enough..... but i think the only way i can learn more now is if i become a fighter for a while, get some ring experience before i switch styles......

i guess i have to just suck it up! in the end, all i want is to learn, which i am. and i know that i am a MAist, and that is all that should matter.

[sirdarksol]

I know what you mean about staying despite everything. Yamash-ita Dai-Sensei is very focused on his income, and that has affected many aspects of training in Matayoshi Kobudo, even though I'm not a direct student of Dai-Sensei.

I can't give you much of an answer for your dilemma except for to state the (hopefully) obvious.
In the end, your choices can be boiled down to:

Continue taking Muay Tai while speaking out against this travesty. Unfortunately, this isn't very loyal to people who are training you. Besides, it's likely to get you kicked out pretty quickly, or at least shunned.

Drop the martial art/try to find another school.

Continue taking Muay Tai, refuse to endorse this program in any way, but otherwise keep your mouth shut about it and try to remind yourself that you can't make anyone do the right thing (or not do the wrong thing).

Sell out.

I'm sorry that these all sound rough, but that's because they are. In this case, I decided against candy-coating anything since I have a severe problem with this kind of thing (the whole lack of respect, aggressive, fighting for the sake of fighting or for money, etc...). I think it's a horrible situation you're in, and yet, it's not really anybody's fault. So you've got a really difficult choice to make, and I don't envy you for it. I'm working on my own such choice, right now. I'm discovering that it might be cheaper/easier for me to take karate through the same school that I take Kobudo, yet that would bring me even closer to the whole money-grubbing situation that I really don't like.

[disgruntled]

let me know what you decide.... i could use some direction....

it would not be so bad if i did not feel that i am at a cross road. if i stay i pretty much have to go into fighting because i have hit a plateu and have stopped progressing. but if i leave, then i leave before i have learnt all that i could have..... grrrr.... hmmm... this is turning into a new topic..... i will start one... discussion to continue else where....

so back to this world combat league thing.... good or bad?

[Shirindo]

I personally dont like the sound of it at all.

I have no problem in sparring with other members of the class as that will always hone some of those instincts. I do have a problem, as you know, with a lack of respect between fellow MAists.

I'm presuming there are no other MT classes anywhere nearby?

As SDS said, you've got a few options and not one of them sounds good, sorry. Are there any others there who feel the same as you? If there were you could maybe go to your Ajarn and tell him you would all still prefer to continue in the manner he has taught you so far. Pander to his ego a bit saying you've always liked his teaching so far. Dunno, just a thought.

Let us know how you get on.

[chokdee]

i think you are slightly over reacting, obviously you are not a fighter. don't take this the wrong way but if you get a lot of fights and get paid for the fights it is good to take them, even if you don't like the atmosphere.
I think i know what gym you go to by the way it is sounding and i know the coach is one of the best in the world. He sends most of his athlete's to other shows all over the world. WCL is a good way to get your name out there because it has a large media coverage instead of muay thai shows which barely even air on the fight network or TSN.

[disgruntled]

Originally Posted by chokdee

i think you are slightly over reacting, obviously you are not a fighter. don't take this the wrong way but if you get a lot of fights and get paid for the fights it is good to take them, even if you don't like the atmosphere.
I think i know what gym you go to by the way it is sounding and i know the coach is one of the best in the world. He sends most of his athlete's to other shows all over the world. WCL is a good way to get your name out there because it has a large media coverage instead of muay thai shows which barely even air on the fight network or TSN.

don't get me wrong..... like i said (i think in another thread), i think that my ajarn is a great fighter and i find him insprational. and the fighters that do come out of the gym are really good. but that is why i am more concerned about the effect this type of sport will have on Muay Thai. the fighters at my (possible our) gym are really great and should be respect for that. i do not want to see them viewed as human cock fighters (i think it was Dana White that used that term the last TUF episode, now it is my fav description!). it does not show the fighters or the sport the respect that they deserve. and really the point i cannot get over is the lack of sportsmanship. and really that goes with any sport.

chokdee are you a fighter? i would love it if you can elaborate and tell us what you think of this development. if you are a fighter, your take on the situation would be great to hear, because like you said i am not a fighter and thus can't really say to much with conviction, and like i said earlier, i am horribly biased.