striking and children

[rolltroll]

I have concerns about teaching children to strike with a closed fist verse open palm. my worry probably stems from the fact that my oldest broke her arm and displaced the growth plate which lead to surgery to reduce the growth plate. now hammer fist and elbow i have no worries about but my question is when i teach youth under the age of 10 how to jab, cross, hook, and uppercut does this in fact put undue stress on there growth plate with a closed fist? i will teach them the strikes but for now i am going with the open palm or cupped slap, until i speak with a ped md to get a more definitive answer or if any of you have opinions please give them.

[disgruntled]

how does a closed fist disrupt growth? are you talking about when hitting a hard opbject? because they could just work on the technique and not hit things. kids at that age can be a little, uh, stupid, so i do not like to encourage them to hit stuff. you should teach that you can learn a lot without hitting things.... otherwise you get students like me when i started at 12 kicking open doors, demonstrating on my friends etc. not good.

[rolltroll]

lol yes i mean as in striking hard surfaces, and that would be why i started them with basic movement standing and on the ground. but now were looking at joint locks and strikes. there 4 months into training they both have good judgment, IE they have avoided fights or stopped them right off and usually make friends with the would be bully lol... wish i had that decision ability at there age.

[sirdarksol]

Children under 10 should not go through the full rigors of martial arts training. I've talked with several people who started martial arts prior to the point where their growth plates started setting up, and all of them have severe issues.
What the younger classes should be focusing on is form, discipline, and children's self defense (which basically amounts to mental training, teaching them out of the level of fear that freezes them and makes them obey whatever any adult, even on they don't know, says)

Every strike and kick, even if it doesn't strike a target, will be strain that a child's joint. The problem isn't that there is a single strain, but the repeated, identical strains add up to damage that a growing body can't work with. Kids are really good at bouncing back from single injuries, even if they're nasty (like a break), but a series of tiny injuries has a larger chance of damaging something while it's still growing, which is usually a very bad thing.

[disgruntled]

good point sirdarksol... that is actually why i have osteroarthritis at such a young age (25). my doctor refered to it as sever tramma.

i know a MAist in Calgary that teaches karate, aikido, and Jiujitus... she does not let children take jiujitsu, butthey can take aikido, which uses a lot of joint manipulation. but she has modified all her teahcing to young children, so that they do the correct motion and have the correct placement, but allow the joint to "slide" so no stress is placed on it, or in some casses, they do the movement without holding on to a person. they are not allowed to practice more full contact until they are finished growing. i thought that it was really neat. she showed me some moves, and although it is is hard to explain, she does do it proper with out harm.

[rolltroll]

http://healthlink.mcw.edu/article/926048658.html
http://www.medhelp.org/NIHlib/GF-352.html

here are a couple of links i found on the subject of growth plates. But i still want to consult a pediatric doctor. it does seem that if the practices is not for hours on end and done slow not full speed there should be no problems.

[sirdarksol]

The "doing things slow, not at full speed" is probably the key to everything.
Teaching kids the proper form is good, trying to teach them to fully utilize their energy is what creates long-term problems.

[rolltroll]

thanks for the great discussion, i appreciate all the input. the boys didn't like doing it slow but they still got a work out and were smiling by the end of class. guess next week ill have them back to doing shrimp drills bridge and roll. then see if they retained the jab and front kick.

[rolltroll]

not to beat a dead horse here but... i spoke with a pediatrician about this subject, and the opinion was that yes to train the strike slowly but allowing the children to actually strike a target such as a mitt or kicking shield a few time would be fine, but no heavy bag or hours of drilling, i still plan to be cautious, and to consult with the docs as much as they will tolerate me.

[Shirindo]

We used to make it a challenge when doing techniques. The slower the techniques are performed the harder it is to maintain balance etc. To tell the kids how it's soo much harder slower they would try to prove they could do it.